Differences between involuntary manslaughter and depraved heart murder?

Depraved heart murder: reckless indifference to an unjustifiably high risk to human life, i.e. playing Russian Roulette.

Involuntary manslaughter: criminal negligence or killing during perpetration of a misdemeanor or felony not included within the Felony Murder Rule.

Think of it this way... Both are unintentional, so the difference between the 2 is really a question of DEGREE of negligence. On a scale of 1 - 10, tort negligence would be about a 1- 4. Involuntary manslaughter constitutes a higher degree of negligence, namely gross or criminal negligence, and would be about 5 - 7 on the negligence scale, thus subjecting the defendant to CRIMINAL LIABILITY. Examples would include driving 100 mph hour down an empty road late at night, or firing a gun into a house or building the defendant thought to be empty. Both are extremely careless, and should someone die, defendant would be held liable for involuntary manslaughter. Note that involuntary manslaughter typically results from the commission of an unlawful act, non-serious felony (such as larceny, where the victim ends up having a heart attack from the fright), or a misdemeanor. Imperfect self-defense may also fall into this category. Remember that involuntary manslaughter requires a greater deviation from the reasonable person standard (it must be REALLY unreasonable), but that deviation will still not rise to the level required for depraved heart murder. Depraved heart murder, on the other hand, requires an even higher degree of negligence -- RECKLESSNESS (very, very, high degree of negligence) -- about an 8 - 10 on the negligence scale. Take the examples above, but increase the risk -- driving 100 mph down a busy street in the middle of the day, or firing a gun into a house the defendant knows to be occupied, perhaps during a party or gathering. Here, malice is implied as a result of defendant's wanton indifference to human life or conscious disregard of an obviously unreasonable risk. Thus, in these examples defendant would be held liable for MURDER, unlike in cases of involuntary manslaughter.

If you haven't figured that one out by now, you need to stay in school
another 2 years.


In a message dated 6/5/2009 8:23:10 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,

Misska's answer is much better than mine.  Much more thorough, descriptive, and engaging.

I couldn't have defined the terms any better.

To jlacome: No reason to be a douchebag, unless you simply can't help it. Or maybe it just makes you feel better about yourself. But who am I to judge? People are stressed enough on this board, and there's no sense in making it worse. Not to mention, if others had a law school schedule like mine, manslaughter and murder were 1L subjects... which was years ago... and probably never really revisited after that. And in some cases, nuances of the law aren't discussed as thoroughly as they should be. Whatever the case, please be a troll somewhere else. This isn't the time or the place for you to boost your low self-esteem. People have legitimate questions here, and most of us know that failure can result from one lone missed question. Every little bit of information can be helpful.

Depraved heart murder can be exemplified by following:  A person is riding his car in a crowded city and ran a red light killing a pedestrian.-  Extreme negligence.

Involuntary manslaughter: A person is driving a car in a very secluded place where hardly any person is seen wandering.  Person accidentally shoots a bullet in air and it hits a person is Criminal negligence leading to involuntary manslaughter.

I hope this clears your confusion completely.

I don't know about your hypo above.  A person that rides in his car in a crowded city and runs a red light could be guilty of either murder or involuntary manslaughter, depending on the facts and circumstances.  For example, if he ran the light just after it turned red to make it to the next street, he's normally not guilty of murder because this isn't sufficient for recklessness. 

No offense, but I like Misska's hypos better.  Plus, she sounds hot.  Haha.

Giving legitimate advice is trolling? News to me. You can pick up a
pretty thorough definition of depraved heart murder, and involuntary
manslaughter, from just about any commercial outline, or if you pick up the PMBR blue
book. I'd be more worried about real property than crimlaw. Point is, if
you are having issues on the distinctions between murder and manslaughter,
which I would venture to guess at least 80%, if not more of the people on
here know, then you really need to go back and figure out if you were just
asleep in class, or just not getting it.

I don't totally agree with ptrips2005's DHM example. The cases I remember
for DHM involved extremely reckless behavior, such as randomly shooting
into a car, or a train, or at a building. I.e. a reasonable person would
know there is a very high likelihood of seriously injuring or killing someone,
although there is no intent to cause serious bodily injury or death.

The problem with running the red light example is -- where is the malice
aforethought? Was the person running the light to see if they could kill
someone, or because they were in a hurry? if the former, then you have
specific intent to cause serious bodily injury or death (and not DHM); with the
latter, just criminal negligence.
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Posted By on 05 Jun 2009 10:57 PM
I don't know about your hypo above.  A person that rides in his car in a crowded city and runs a red light could be guilty of either murder or involuntary manslaughter, depending on the facts and circumstances.  For example, if he ran the light just after it turned red to make it to the next street, he's normally not guilty of murder because this isn't sufficient for recklessness. 

No offense, but I like Misska's hypos better.  Plus, she sounds hot.  Haha.

She looks hot as well. See her profile. (Click on the pic to your right or on her name) :)

dude,

she is the hottest cookie monster.  EVER.

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<!--[if !supportLists]-->Ø      <!--[endif]-->) reckless indifference for human life – high risk of death [wanton/depraved heart murder];

 

 

Involuntary manslaughter:  mental state less culpable,  b/w malice(above) and ordinary negligence,  i.e. gross negligence

 

IF NO MALICE

INVOLUNTARY MANSLAUGHTER [General Intent]

<!--[if !supportLists]-->Ø      <!--[endif]-->involuntary manslaughter applies only where NO malice is found.

<!--[if !supportLists]-->Ø      <!--[endif]-->killing w/ “criminal negligence” (includes gross negligence)

<!--[if !supportLists]-->Ø      <!--[endif]-->causing death during an unlawful act (a malum in se misdemeanor – misd. manslaughter)

<!--[if !supportLists]-->Ø      <!--[endif]-->failing to aid when there is a duty to act (parent/child, husband/wife)

<!--[if gte mso 9]> Normal 0 false false false MicrosoftInternetExplorer4 <!-- /* Font Definitions */ @font-face {font-family:Wingdings; panose-1:5 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0; mso-font-charset:2; mso-generic-font-family:auto; mso-font-pitch:variable; mso-font-signature:0 268435456 0 0 -2147483648 0;} /* Style Definitions */ p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal {mso-style-parent:""; margin:0cm; margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";} h4 {mso-style-next:Обычный; margin:0cm; margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; page-break-after:avoid; mso-outline-level:4; font-size:14.0pt; mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-ansi-language:EN-US; mso-fareast-language:EN-US;} @page Section1 {size:612.0pt 792.0pt; margin:2.0cm 42.5pt 2.0cm 3.0cm; mso-header-margin:36.0pt; mso-footer-margin:36.0pt; mso-paper-source:0;} div.Section1 {page:Section1;} /* List Definitions */ @list l0 {mso-list-id:334573268; mso-list-type:hybrid; mso-list-template-ids:920145726 67698699 67698691 67698693 67698689 67698691 67698693 67698689 67698691 67698693;} @list l0:level1 {mso-level-number-format:bullet; mso-level-text:; mso-level-tab-stop:36.0pt; mso-level-number-position:left; text-indent:-18.0pt; font-family:Wingdings;} @list l0:level2 {mso-level-number-format:bullet; mso-level-text:o; mso-level-tab-stop:72.0pt; mso-level-number-position:left; text-indent:-18.0pt; font-family:"Courier New";} @list l1 {mso-list-id:524295520; mso-list-type:hybrid; mso-list-template-ids:1908051244 67698699 67698691 67698693 67698689 67698691 67698693 67698689 67698691 67698693;} @list l1:level1 {mso-level-number-format:bullet; mso-level-text:; mso-level-tab-stop:36.0pt; mso-level-number-position:left; text-indent:-18.0pt; font-family:Wingdings;} ol {margin-bottom:0cm;} ul {margin-bottom:0cm;} --> <!--[if gte mso 10]> Depraved heart is murder with malice =reckless disregard (knew about substantial extreme risk to human life, yet disregard it in “cold blood,” could not care less, even knew that high probability of serious body injury or even death would occur –driving at high speed along crowed sidewalk at downtown. (compare driving at high speed –above posted limit on empty street 3 AM with no cars, no pedestrians whatsoever -negligence)

<!--[if !supportLists]-->Ø      <!--[endif]-->) reckless indifference for human life – high risk of death [wanton/depraved heart murder];

 

 

Involuntary manslaughter:  mental state less culpable,  b/w malice(above) and ordinary negligence,  i.e. gross negligence

 

IF NO MALICE

INVOLUNTARY MANSLAUGHTER [General Intent]

<!--[if !supportLists]-->Ø      <!--[endif]-->involuntary manslaughter applies only where NO malice is found.

<!--[if !supportLists]-->Ø      <!--[endif]-->killing w/ “criminal negligence” (includes gross negligence)

<!--[if !supportLists]-->Ø      <!--[endif]-->causing death during an unlawful act (a malum in se misdemeanor – misd. manslaughter)

<!--[if !supportLists]-->Ø      <!--[endif]-->failing to aid when there is a duty to act (parent/child, husband/wife)

One of degree as to the amount of criminal negligence.

On Fri, Jun 5, 2009 at 5:25 PM, <

MALICE IS THE KEY

Depraved Hear Murder is "MURDER." What is murder... murder is the killing of another with "MALICE AFORETHOUGHT." Malice may be expressed or implied. What is malice -- Malice is knowing or not giving a damn as to the harm inflicted upon other by your actions.

Depraved Heart is knowing that your actions create a high risk of killing another. (Actually -- it is just simple malice) -- it is always a possible charge when you talk about any type of murder.

Involuntary Manslaughter is MANSLAUGHTER. Manslaughter is the killing of another person but without Malice.

In Involuntary Manslaugher -- you are not fully aware that your actions create a high risk of killing another.

Jimmy, MALICE is not the key. Depraved heart murder requires RECKLESSNESS, which is not malice aforethought and may not even be malicious. Just extreme recklessness.
Involuntary manslaughter on the other hand requires criminal negligence or gross negligence which may be found in a simple disobedience of the law (like going 40 miles per hour in a school zone) OR even MALICIOUS conduct (like in misdemeanor manslaughter due to assault or battery)

So beware of making "MALICE" your perimeter

By the way Misska is wrong -- don't dwell on whether a person intended to kill -- that just intenitonal murder.

Malice is the intent in murder.

Here goes: Murder is the killing of another with MALICE AFORETHOUGHT. MALICE may be EXPRESSED or IMPLIED.

MALICE is the a knowing disregard for human life or safety -- performing such actions that pose a great likelihood of injury or death to others in the face of that knowledge.

MALICE is expresed in INTENTIONAL MURDER. The person plots... plans... and executes a killing.

MALICE is implied in SERIOUS BODILY HARM MURDER. The person thinks about using a deadly weapon to injure another -- then uses the deadly weapon. (The state does not have to prove the person intended to kill... just that he did the deed with malice afore thought)

MALICE is implied in FELONY MURDER. The person thinks about doing an illegal act that by its nature is inherently dangerous and has a high liklihood of injury or death.

MALICE is implied in DEPRAVED HEART. Actually, thinkk of depraved heart as the catch-all in murder. The very definition of Deparaved Heart is nearly the same as malice. Here's a good check list of elements of acts that will fall into depraved heart:

1) Voluntary - the Defendant expecuted his act voluntarily

2) Knowledge - A person in the position of the defendant would have known his action posed a high risk of death or injury

3) Wanton Heart - The defendant had to show that he did not give a damn about the consequences of his actions (frankly that can be implied from the mere fact he did the action)

In VOLUNTARY MANSLAUGHTER: there is MALICE but no AFORETHOUGHT -- Your actions showed disregard for death or injury but you did not think OR reflect upon your actions. It is said that you are in the HEAT OF PASSION.

In INVOLUNTARY MANSLAUGHTER: there is Aforethought but no MALICE. You reflected upon your actions and knew or should have known that those actins were wrong... but you took those action without full awareness that they posed a serious risk of injury or death to others.

Here is a problem that illustrates my point:

Drug dealer sells vial of heroine to customer and customer ODs

Sellling drugs is wrong and the dealer knew or should have known that the customer might be injured or killed by the drugs. Depraved heart

But

Drug dealer did not have knowledge that customer would take it in a dose that would cause death -- therefore no Malice. Involutary Manslaughter


Remember: only in one -- Intent to kill do you have to prove the defendant wanted someone dead.

In all the others... ask yourself is the defendant's action so terribly wrong that he/she should have known someone would die.