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Sub: community property question re: education and training
Author: slums [21813]
27 Jun 2009 12:12 PM
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slums

right to reimbursement for education and training expenses may be reduced in 3 cases, including where the education or training has reduced the need for spousal support.

the question i have is: is the reduction in need for spousal support for the receiver-spouse, the spouse who has not received education or training, or to both?

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Author: Esq. at last [21813]
27 Jun 2009 01:12 PM
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Esq. at last

The educated spouse would not be seeking reimbursement because they have the education. The non educated spouse would seek reimbursement because they didn't get the education. So if the non-educated spouse has a reduced need for support as a result of the education of the other spouse, then that is an exception.

15810
Author: Blakester [1] Send Private Message
27 Jun 2009 01:35 PM
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Blakester

let's say husband is a lawyer and is married to wife.  wife attends med school using community funds.  they divorce.

here, husband could claim reimbursement for med school costs, unless one of the 3 limitations apply.  for example, if wife's med school education reduced the need for husband to provide spousal support, then husband's claim of reimbursement may be redued or denied, depending on the specific numbers.

right?

15813
Author: belandrei [302] Send Private Message
27 Jun 2009 02:46 PM
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belandrei

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I think you are mixing family law and community property. We are responsible for CP i.e. how assets/ debts divvied up on

divorce or death.  FL deals with child/ spousal support , custody. It is true that education or imputed earning capacity

of one spouse is significant factor for calculating of spousal support. But we are not to calculate supports, we are dealing 

with property division: main rule regardless of who is what, who became what, who contribute what,  b/c it was

“community efforts”, everything is split 50/50.

 

 There are exceptions, such as some debt, tort liability from action not in benefit of community.

On of such exceptions is education debt by statutory exceptions to the “equal division on divorce” rule

(one spouse ending up with more than 50% total). One spouse has incurred educational debts (treated like separately incurred debts)

                 

 Educational expenses

                  1. A professional degree is not community property subject to division on divorce. 

                      a. But a community is entitled to reimbursement with interest when:

i. community funds are used to pay for education or training or to repay a loan related thereto; AND

ii. Education during the marriage substantially enhanced other spouse’s earning capacity. 

    b.  Reimbursement is usually limited to direct expenses such as tuition, books, supplies, and transportation.

    c.  Loans still outstanding at divorce are assigned solely to the educated spouse.

                  2. Reimbursement is also available if educational expenses were incurred before the marriage and the loans

                      were paid with community funds after marriage. 

 

                  Now is your question:

                  3. Defenses to reimbursement of the community estate for educational expenses (only one is sufficient)

                      a. Community has already substantially benefited from the earnings of the educated spouse.

                          i. If more then 10 years have elapsed since the degree was awarded, the presumption is that the

                             community has substantially benefited and, unless the presumption is rebutted, no reimbursement. 

                      b. Other spouse also received a CP-funded education. 

                      c. Education was obtained by a spouse who was seeking spousal support and that education enabled

                            spouse to engage in income that reduced the need she otherwise would have for spousal support.

 

 

            As such let’s look into “# c”  defense:  Wife got MBA paid by community. that degree allows wife to engage in employment that reduced the need she otherwise would have for spousal support from her ex-husband. Husband can not ask to reimburse CP for degree, b/c MBA is not a property for purposes of Cal Family code. He can only ask to reimburse for her tuition (and in some newer, more radical cases even for living expenses during her going to school, split in courts). Wife would argue, honey, you will not need to pay as much as for me now compare as for me w/o MBA degree. I am making 150K and you are still at you 50K job.  Instead of my education degree expenses going to CP and being divided 50/50,  and you getting 50% , we are not going to count it. But rather instead of paying me spousal support, your support will be a lot less or even nothing. So it is fair, b/c you, husband, will get reimbursed over the next 5 years by reduced o even zero spousal support.

 

The similar defense by wife would be:  it is true that CP paid for my MBA, by I was earning 150 k a year  for last 10 years, CP had enough of opportunity to get reimbursed for my education ( I was a housewife before marriage and became high earned profession bring substantial income) So there is no reimbursement for my education

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